Shaun Clowes

Lenny Rachitsky (00:00:00): I love that you have very strong opinion about this, which is just the state of the product management career and how most PMs are not that great. Shaun Clowes (00:00:08): Why is it that product management is still such a relatively undeveloped discipline? We're like 15 to 20 years into this, and so there's something about the current state of product management that isn't getting at the truly important things, the truly value-added things....

The opener starts with biography before advice. That order makes the guest legible as a person before the listener extracts tactics.

title: "Why great AI products are all about the data | Shaun Clowes (CPO Confluent, ex-Salesforce, Atlassian)" date: "2024-12-29" type: "podcast" guest: "Shaun Clowes" channel:...

Uses we/us, uncertainty, or learner framing instead of performing authority.

Shaun Clowes (00:05:12): Thank you, Lenny. It's really awesome to be here. Lenny Rachitsky (00:05:14): I've had you on my radar for a long time and...

Accepts praise without shrinking from it or turning it into a performance.

Shaun Clowes (00:05:28): I'm glad to be a bit of a curiosity. Lenny...

Uses we/us, uncertainty, or learner framing instead of performing authority.

Lenny Rachitsky (01:21:01): So true. Shaun, thank you so much for being here. Shaun Clowes (01:21:05): Awesome, thank you very much, Lenny. It was great. Lenny...

Accepts praise without shrinking from it or turning it into a performance.

course and the data for product managers course, so love to see folks get some value from that. Lots of people have been through those courses already and I really get a lot of value from it because like I said, one of my goals is to help all of us be better product people. I think our leverage could be massive. Where you can get in touch with me, obviously on LinkedIn, but also ShaunMClowes on X, if you want to get in touch....

The ending reorients from guest intimacy to listener usefulness.